[ last update:  11.30.2007 ]

The (new) Cadillac Database^©

The Cadillac V16

Series 452C
1933

Part 3
First Generation
Production Records

Return to The (New) Cadillac Database© Index Page
or to the "V-16" index page

 

(le résumé en français se trouve en bas de page)

 

The 1933 V16 instrument board (left and right) and "Goddess" (center)

 

The "Sixteens" for 1933 are relatively rare, only 126 engines having been built.  Of these, research conducted in the sixties and seventies by Carl Steig of the CLC has identified a total of 125 cars (nothing is known of the missing engine, #5000049).

Despite the low production figures, nonetheless,  thirty-five different body styles have been  listed by Mr. Steig as having been built.  Of course, some of these will appear to be duplicates of other styles, the differences being for the most part in the layout of the interior.

Each body style is illustrated below in ascending order of rarity, the most plentiful styles coming first (the word "plentiful", here, obviously is a misnomer considering that the largest number of any one particular body style was only thirty-two units!)

For the experts out there who are wondering where most of these particular "factory drawings" came from, I should point out that they are modified drawings excerpted from the Fleetwood catalog for 1933.   Indeed, for more authenticity I replaced the vertical chevrons on the front fender skirts (as shown in the catalog) with the three horizontal spears featured on the actual production models.

 

Numbering

One interesting facet of my research into the history and production of sixteen-cylinder Cadillac models is the apparently confusing production and body numbering system.  In this regard, the year 1933 is particularly interesting. 

In 1933, there were, of course, the consecutive engine/chassis serial number, the Cadillac "Series" number (452-C), the Fleetwood job/style number, the consecutive body unit number and the (apparently consecutive) owner ID or "dash plaque" number; in addition, a (seemingly) consecutive "LX" number was stenciled on the firewall or stamped on a body tag (the lowest "LX" number I have seen mentioned in factory literature is "LX2901"; the latter is identified as a custom 1930 V-16 model). 

Pre-WW2 Cadillac models with an "X" in the job/style number are "special"; I had a hunch, therefore, that the "LX" cars were "ultra special", possibly approved and personally inspected by Larry Fisher (initial "L").  Later, I came to believe that the "L" designated cars put into livery service (again initial "L") for use by  top-notch GM/Cadillac executives.

Now I would like to share with you some thoughts and information on this topic that I got over the last few  years from V16 enthusiast, Carl Stoutenberg. Carl does not share my theory that associates the "LX" numbers with either "L"arry Fisher, or with GM/Cadillac's "L"ivery service. He opines that these numbers may have started with #LX0001, back in the early 1920's.   He thinks that #LX2901 [the 1930 custom V-16 mentioned above] is the consecutive number reached in the "LX" group by 1929-1930.   Stencilled on the firewall of a custom Madame X job, a Fleetwood #5131 V-16model built in 1932 R.S. McLaughlin, then President of GM-Canada, is #4200LX; this seems to follow Carl's numerical sequence theory.  The "LX" numbers that were used in 1933 again seem to follow the same progression, yet the numbering sequence sometimes appears incongruous [see the table below]. Carl was going to look at later V-16 production records to test his theory.  In speaking with another Cadillac aficionado, Karl Nikoloff, I learned that he had a V-12 model from 1932 with the "LX" number 4109. So these numbers were not exclusive to the V-16s.

Carl says : 

There is no confusion [in the numbering of these cars]; let me tell you the various numbers of which  I am aware on at least one 1933 Cadillac V16. This is the most thoroughly numbered car I can think of. Others may not have all of these numbers. So, as you hear from other owners for your Database, you might ask them which numbers they have. Be sure that you and they are talking about the same number(s) [and location(s)].

All but the "LX" number appear on the car's build sheet. [On this car - Ser. #5000077] the original owner's name appears on a dash plaque as Theodore W. Case, #117. The serial number  (5000077) is a consecutive number assigned to the engine and chassis of the 1933 V-16s; it was used for both title and registration. These numbers are listed on the build sheets, starting with 5000001  and ending with 5000126.

[On the firewall body tag is listed also] Job No 5508 (also called Style number, starting sometime in 1933). The job/style numbers are consecutive for any given body style [i.e. the first body built will carry #1, and so on up to the last such body built]. This particular job [#5508] was a convertible coupe by the Fleetwood Body Co. Only two were built; the Case car carries body #2.

Stenciled on the firewall also is the number "LX5266"; this is the great mystery. So far, I only heard of the number appearing on the cowl, that also carries the body tag listing the job/style number and the body unit number. That "LX" number does not seem to appear on any paper document relating to the specific car. It seems to be a consecutive number and increases as the serial numbers increase [the table, below, shows that theory to be not always true]. The highest number I have seen exceeds the total of all V-8, V-12 and V-16 cars built in 1933. I speculate it might have to do with cars that are customer-ordered as opposed to cars made for inventory.

Below is a list of VINs for which an "LX" number has been found (as Carl has explained, there is apparently no way to check "LX" numbers against factory build sheets to determine authenticity).  If Carl's theory (which I now share) is correct then the "LX" numbers for some of these sixteens must be incorrect, since they do not follow the same ascending numerical sequence as chassis/engine numbers. My gut feeling is that the "LX" numbers need not be in sequence with the VIN.  More likely they were stencilled on the firewall in the order the cars were built, which is not necessarily the order in which the chassis rolled off the production line.

Chassis #	"LX" #	Comment
?	2901	1930-31 Fisher 7p V16 sedan
?	2905	1930-31 Fisher 5p V16 town sedan
?	2913	1930-31 Fisher 5p V16 coupe
?	4109	1932 Special V-12 model
5000082	4720	VIN Out of sequence
5000028	4571	VIN Out of sequence
5000043	4572	VIN Out of sequence
5000024	5092
5000097	5138	VIN Out of sequence
5000045	5195
?	5253	1933 Special V-8 model
5000077	5266
5000088	5270
5000102	5441
5000116	5514

 

Carl continues:

On the original build sheet also is found "SFBO No. 69"; this is the  "Special Fleetwood Body Order" number.  On this sheet are found the detailed body specifications. It is listed in a box entitled "Fisher Order Number"; it is assumed, therefore, that the same blank form was used for both Fleetwood and Fisher built cars. Not all cars have an SFBO number.

There you have it  -  seven numbers for a single car. Again not all cars have all seven numbers and the meaning of some of the numbers is unknown to me. Further, there is no explanation why the dash plaque number does not tie directly to the engine number, nor why some dash plaque numbers are higher than the total of 125 V-16 models built in 1933.

Carl Steig is an authority and possibly has knowledge of some of this, however, we are really digging deep into the trivial pursuit aspect of numbering and this may not have been studied in the detail we may wish it might have been.

Note too the above applies to 1933 only. I do not know at this time if similar numbering exists on earlier or later years and leave that to other scholars to unveil.

In addition to VIN and "LX" numbers it is believed that each car delivered carried  a dash plaque (individual ID plate) honoring the owner.  I have only ever seen one of them on a car (the convertible sedan built for singer-showman, Al Jolson).  Mounted on the wood fascia in the center of the dash, the plate carries a number, which appears to be the last digits of the VIN.

 

The table below summarizes vee-sixteen production for 1933; the models are listed in order of rarity. There have been a few survivors.  Click here to view them.

Production numbers of the 1933 Cadillac V-16
[in ascending order of rarity]

¹  Body #1 (and possibly others too) may have been mounted on V-8 or V-12 chassis in 1932 or 1933
²  Bodies #1, 2, 4 and 5 (and possibly others too) may have been mounted on V-8 or V-12 chassis in 1932 or 1933
³  Bodies #1 and 2 (and possibly others too) may have been mounted on V-8 or V-12 chassis in 1932 or 1933
⁴  Bodies #1 through 8 (and possibly others too) may have been mounted on V-8 or V-12 chassis in 1932 or 1933
⁵  The same body numbers were used also in 1932; bodies #1, 3, 4 and 5 were mounted on the 1932 V-12 chassis; bodies #2 and 7were mounted
    on the 1932 V-16 chassis;  bodies #8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 15 were mounted on the V-12 chassis for 1933
⁶  Body #1 (and possibly others too) may have been mounted on V-8 or V-12 chassis in 1932 or 1933
⁷  The Cadillac Master Parts List usually lists only body styles actually built.   For 1933, however, the list includes the
    following  styles, although none of them appear to have been built on the V-16 chassis: #s 5502, 5513, 5514,  5521, 5526,
    5532, 5532-S, 5533, 5535, 5536,  5545, 5545-S, 5550, 5557, 5558, 5560, 5561, 5563, 5563-S, 5564, 5564-B, 5565-S,
    5566, 5566-S, 5573-S, 5574-S, 5575-SFL,   5577, 5578, 5580, 5586, 5590 and 5592. 

Nice Town Sedan ...but none were built

 

Some factory and catalog photos

The Unique Sixteens for 1933

Unique Styles from Domestic
Coach Builders

Return to The (New) Cadillac Database© Index Page
or to the "V-16" index page

© 1996, Yann Saunders and the Cadillac-LaSalle Club, Inc.
[ Background image: the powerful frontal image of the Sixteens for 1933;
full-width, four-bar bumpers are immediate clue to car's ID ]